Game Report for Harem Scarem: S1754 Produced 11/01/2002 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Moves Summary =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Moves in [] fail, others succeed Austria (Konrad Baumeister): [A Belem -> Matto Grosso], A Greece -> Papal States, A Hague S F Hanover(ec), A Rumania -> Bosnia, A Silesia -> Poland, F Adriatic Sea C A Greece -> Papal States, F Caribbean Sea -> Cuba, [F Coral Sea -> Philippine Sea] (Dislodged! Retreat to WES,NWG,TAR,FIJ,SAM,BIS,TAS,OTB), F Ionian Sea S French A Papal States -> Tunis, F Naples S French F West Mediterranean Sea, F Surinam -> West Indies, [F SW Atlantic Ocean -> Brazil], [F Tahiti -> South Pacific Ocean], F Virginia -> Florida China (Paul Rauterberg): [A Afghanistan -> Persia], A Burma -> Siam, A Gobi Desert -> Mongolia, A Kazakhstan S A Mongolia -> Omsk, A Laos S A Burma -> Siam, A Manchuria -> Siberia, A Mongolia -> Omsk, A Nanking -> Szechuan, A Sinkiang -> Turkestan, A Uzbekistan S A Sinkiang -> Turkestan, A Wuhan -> Tibet, F Amoy -> East China Sea, F East China Sea -> West Pacific Ocean, F Peking -> Yellow Sea, F Sea of Okhotsk S A Manchuria -> Siberia, [F Solomon Sea S F East China Sea -> West Pacific Ocean], F Taiwan -> Subic Bay, F Vladivostok S A Manchuria -> Siberia England (Dave Partridge): [A Argentina S Austrian F SW Atlantic Ocean -> Brazil], [A Bolivia -> Peru], A Colombia -> Amazon, A Ecuador S A Colombia -> Amazon, A Fezan -> Nigeria, A Kamerun S A Fezan -> Nigeria, A Sudan S Turkish A Jerusalem -> Libya, F Baltic Sea -> Sweden, F Central Atlantic Ocean -> Ricefe, [F East Atlantic Ocean -> Canaries] (Dislodged! Retreat to CAO,WAO,BRI,ENG,IRI,IRE,OTB), [F East Indian Ocean -> Malay Sea], F Grand Banks -> Hudson Bay, F Gulf of California S Turkish F Hawaii -> North Pacific Ocean, F North Atlantic Ocean S F Grand Banks -> Hudson Bay, F Norwegian Sea -> North Sea, F Siam(ec) -> Gulf of Siam, F South China Sea S F Siam(ec) -> Gulf of Siam France (Konrad Baumeister): A Aragon -> Madrid, A Azores H, A Leon S A Aragon -> Madrid, A Ohio S F Florida -> Louisiana, A Papal States -> Tunis, A Timbuktu -> Numidia, A Toulon -> Aragon, F Bay of Biscay S A Leon, F Florida -> Louisiana, F Ligurian Sea S A Toulon -> Aragon, [F Massachusetts S English F Grand Banks -> Quebec], [F SE Atlantic Ocean -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean], F West Mediterranean Sea C A Papal States -> Tunis Netherlands (Dave Partridge): [A Denmark S Austrian F Coral Sea -> Philippine Sea], A Katanga -> Tanganyika, A Nubia S A Tanganyika -> Kenya, A Tanganyika -> Kenya, F Angola S F Gabon -> Gulf of Guinea, F Cape Colony -> Natal, F Gabon -> Gulf of Guinea, F Melbourne -> Coral Sea, F New Guinea -> Arafura Sea, [F South Indian Ocean -> Somali Sea], [F South Pacific Ocean -> Peru], F Sweden -> Helgoland Bight Ottoman (Dave Partridge): A Armenia S A Persia, A Baghdad S A Persia, A Bulgaria H, A Izmir -> Istanbul, [A Jerusalem -> Libya], [A Libya -> Benin], [A Persia S A Ural -> Kazakhstan], F Black Sea S A Bulgaria, F East Mediterranean Sea C A Jerusalem -> Libya, [F Ethiopia -> Somalia], [F Hawaii -> North Pacific Ocean], F New Zealand S Dutch F Melbourne -> Coral Sea, F Persian Gulf S A Persia, [F Rabaul -> Solomon Sea] Portugal (Paul Rauterberg): [A Amazon -> Bolivia] (Dislodged! Retreat to MNS,OTB), A Dakar -> Sahara, A Lagos -> Lisbon, [A Madrid S Spanish A Huelvas -> Valencia] (Dislodged! Retreat to HUE,OTB), [A Matto Grosso S A Amazon -> Bolivia], A Missouri S A Quebec -> Ontario, [A Paraguay -> Argentina], A Punjab S Chinese A Afghanistan -> Persia, A Quebec -> Ontario, [F Alaska -> Bering Strait], [F Brazil S A Paraguay -> Argentina], F Canaries S F Lisbon -> East Atlantic Ocean, F Ceylon S F Goa -> West Indian Ocean, F Ghana S F Gulf of Guinea -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean, [F Gibraltar -> West Mediterranean Sea], F Goa -> West Indian Ocean, F Gulf of Guinea -> Mid-Atlantic Ocean, [F Hudson Bay -> North Atlantic Ocean] (Dislodged! Retreat to QUE,YUK,OTB), F Lisbon -> East Atlantic Ocean, [F North Pacific Ocean -> Hawaii], [F Somali Sea S Spanish F Kenya -> Somalia] Russia (Konrad Baumeister): A Kiev S A Omsk -> Ural, A Omsk -> Ural, [A Turkestan -> Omsk] (Annihilated!), [A Uganda -> Kenya], A Ural -> Moscow, F Hanover(ec) H, [F Siberia -> Bering Strait] (Annihilated!), F St Petersburg(sc) H Spain (Paul Rauterberg): A Honduras -> Mexico, A Huelvas -> Valencia, A Mexico -> California, A Numidia -> Benin, A Togo S A Numidia -> Benin, A Volta -> Timbuktu, [F Borneo -> Malay Sea], F Gulf of Siam -> Malaya, [F Kenya -> Somalia] (Annihilated!), F Malaya -> Andaman Sea, [F Manila -> Philippine Sea], F Polynesia S Portuguese F North Pacific Ocean -> Hawaii, F Sargasso Sea -> Grand Banks, F Somalia -> Gulf of Aden, [F Tunis -> West Mediterranean Sea] (Dislodged! Retreat to ALG, OTB) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Positions Summary =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Austria: F Adriatic Sea, A Belem, A Bosnia, F Cuba, F Florida, A Hague, F Ionian Sea, F Naples, A Papal States, A Poland, F SW Atlantic Ocean, F Tahiti, F West Indies. F Coral Sea(DISL) China: A Afghanistan, F East China Sea, A Kazakhstan, A Laos, A Mongolia, A Omsk, F Sea of Okhotsk, A Siam, A Siberia, F Solomon Sea, F Subic Bay, A Szechuan, A Tibet, A Turkestan, A Uzbekistan, F Vladivostok, F West Pacific Ocean, F Yellow Sea. England: A Amazon, A Argentina, A Bolivia, F East Indian Ocean, A Ecuador, F Gulf of California, F Gulf of Siam, F Hudson Bay, A Kamerun, A Nigeria, F North Atlantic Ocean, F North Sea, F Ricefe, F South China Sea, A Sudan, F Sweden. F East Atlantic Ocean(DISL) France: A Aragon, A Azores, F Bay of Biscay, A Leon, F Ligurian Sea, F Louisiana, A Madrid, F Massachusetts, A Numidia, A Ohio, F SE Atlantic Ocean, A Tunis, F West Mediterranean Sea. Netherlands: F Angola, F Arafura Sea, F Coral Sea, A Denmark, F Gulf of Guinea, F Helgoland Bight, A Kenya, F Natal, A Nubia, F South Indian Ocean, F South Pacific Ocean, A Tanganyika. Ottoman: A Armenia, A Baghdad, F Black Sea, A Bulgaria, F East Mediterranean Sea, F Ethiopia, F Hawaii, A Istanbul, A Jerusalem, A Libya, F New Zealand, A Persia, F Persian Gulf, F Rabaul. Portugal: F Alaska, F Brazil, F Canaries, F Ceylon, F East Atlantic Ocean, F Ghana, F Gibraltar, A Lisbon, A Matto Grosso, F Mid-Atlantic Ocean, A Missouri, F North Pacific Ocean, A Ontario, A Paraguay, A Punjab, A Sahara, F Somali Sea, F West Indian Ocean. A Amazon(DISL) A Madrid(DISL) F Hudson Bay(DISL) Russia: F Hanover(ec), A Kiev, A Moscow, F St Petersburg(sc), A Uganda, A Ural. Spain: F Andaman Sea, A Benin, F Borneo, A California, F Grand Banks, F Gulf of Aden, F Malaya, F Manila, A Mexico, F Polynesia, A Timbuktu, A Togo, A Valencia. F Tunis(DISL) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Supply Centre Ownership Summary =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Owner may build in SCs that are in CAPS Austria (Konrad Baumeister): Units: 14 SCs: 14 BUD,TRI,VIE,hag,NAP,SUR,TAH,bel,cub,gre,rum,sam,vza,vir China (Paul Rauterberg): Units: 18 SCs: 18 AMO,NAN,PEK,WUH,XIA,vla,afg,ben,bma,jap,kor,mah,man,mon,nep,sin,tai,tib England (Dave Partridge): Units: 17 SCs: 17 EDI,LON,ECU,NIG,arg,bol,cam,col,fez,ire,jav,kam,nwy,pru,sia,sud,sum France (Konrad Baumeister): Units: 13 SCs: 13 BDX,PAR,TOU,ant,FLO,azo,bav,mas,ohi,pps,sav,tbk,ven Netherlands (Dave Partridge): Units: 12 SCs: 13 ANG,CAP,MEL,con,den,fij,gab,mal,moz,nat,nwg,swe,zam Ottoman (Dave Partridge): Units: 14 SCs: 15 BAG,IST,IZM,JEM,HAW,bul,egy,eth,gua,nwz,per,rab,tar,wak,yem Portugal (Paul Rauterberg): Units: 21 SCs: 21 LAG,LIS,mad,ALA,BRA,DAK,GOA,QUE,bah,cey,gha,ifn,kha,mba,mor,niz,ont,ore,ric,tau, van Russia (Konrad Baumeister): Units: 6 SCs: 8 KIE,MOS,OMS,STP,cri,han,pol,uga Spain (Paul Rauterberg): Units: 14 SCs: 15 VAL,MLA,MNL,MEX,SOM,bor,cal,hon,ken,lou,num,tex,tog,tun,vol Neutral SCs: 2 die,iwo =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Press and Commentary =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Paul Rauterberg (PR): Fleet Somali Sea to World: The plaintive cries of the oppressed masses in Somalia and Kenya are heard by a sympathetic Portuguese Empire. We vow to ship them all to Malay and Hawaii, to new homes in liberated lands, far away from the clutches of the Displaced Dutch. New Lives in Kazakstan: Thousands of Chinese workers and peasants have been busily constructing huts and rice paddies here, but they know that by nature they are a nomadic peoples. Situated at the very gates to the Ottoman and (western) Russian homelands, they feel the need to journey onward (welcome or not). Konrad Baumeister (KB): VIENNA: Hi Dave, how about a little help into Brazil? Will trade for a hand up into Quebec (let me know which). In the fall we'll get you Bolivia back. PR: I offered Dave Brazil for Hawaii and Malaya, but he didn't even deign to respond. KB: It's all in the approach and tone. Konrad: I can cut Dave's support for SWA-Brazil, but Dave could NOT cut Brazil's support for SWA-Argentina. This would not necessitate your supporting Dave to Quebec.... Harold Reynolds (HR): It would help if he were awake to respond. Negotiations at this time of the night for a family man consist mostly of grunts, snores and subconsious attempts to keep his share of the blankets... 8-) Dave Partridge (DP): Gentlemen, Now that I am awake, I'll ask a general question, which is do we want to go to an open discussion of tactics (admittedly broadcast only) or do we want to keep this more play it alone as we've been doing. Previously we may have implied a truce to stop the leader, but we didn't get into specifics. I'll go with the majority, but they are two different flavors of the game. Let me know, then I'll grunt, snore and groan appropriately. PR: I didn't say anything because Konrad's attempt at negociating was, after all, public. It was in my eyes legal, if a bit pushing the fabric. I'm willing to refrain from public (or any) negociating in the press unless it is in reply to what others come up with first. DP: There was certainly nothing wrong in Konrad's press, and I wasn't trying to imply there was. However, doing such negotiations would be a change in the flavor of the game. Either is acceptable and within the game parameters as we started it. I just figured if we were going to move that way we'd do it as an open an agreed idea. I guess what I was asking was, does anyone have a preference for either option, those options being: 1) specific tactics and strategies can be discussed in press 2) Only general terms ("let's play stop the leader" )in the press with the obvious understanding that all press is public. Personally, I'll do either. PR: I won't cast a vote here because obviously, as "the leader", I'd rather not have my opposition negotiating against me. That's bias for you. DP: Well, Konrad pretty much cast his vote with the original broadcast, and certainly open tactical negotiations are part of standard white press broadcast games, so I'm going to go put my thinking cap on and see what I can come up with. Wait a bit while I cook up the brilliant tactical assault that has only one defense that Paul will have to play and then of course I will not make that move but will make a different move which will exploit the fact that Paul will realize that I won't make the announced move and will make a countermove to defeat the obvious move made to outsmart him when he makes the countermove. Give or take a double think or two.... HR: Well, there has been an absence of lying, double-dealing and backstabbing so far, and that's what the game is all about. 8-) In broadcast white press, you're free to say what you want (including negotiation attempts), and you're equally free to do what you want when you move. I was hoping that people would use the press to do a little negotiating, but until now nobody has. As an exercise in pure tactics, so far the game has been excellent. The strengths and flaws of the alliance structures have been dramatically illustrated. Dave's "Duel Diplomacy" might be a better avenue for a true tactical display because the uncertainty in the alliance structures from year to year would help to balance the game better. With regular Dip, Dave said each player gets 12 points to bid for 5 powers, or 2.4 points per power. For a 2-player Colonia Duel, there are 7 powers up for grabs, so each player could get 16.8 (round to 17) points; for a 3-player "duel" it would be 6 powers, or 14.4 (round to 14). As we have seen, this set of alliances is not all that well balanced and Konrad has definitely gotten the short stick. Dave is right in that adding negotiations will change the flavour of the game. However, the game has reached a critical stage where the ability to negotiate will definitely make a difference in the final outcome (as the two smaller powers do their best to put the brakes on the larger one's expansion). It will definitely allow for an exercise of Paul's tactical skills, and will also be a bit more fair because it might give Konrad a chance at survival outside of Europe. I really do feel bad at starting off with an unequal power distribution! And since everyone will know what's being bandied about, Paul won't be at that much of a disadvantage, given the current strength of his position... And the audience (if any) will always be wondering when the stab will come, and if the very public cooperation will actually be able to make a difference! So unless we have any serious objections (and we want it to be a consensus), I say play on! Slander the (fictitious) leaders of opposing nations, play mind games with the other players, increase everyone's blood pressure, and make it harder. 8-) Hey, I should be working now... 8-* PR: What, are you trying to make me THINK here? DP: Well, I obviously haven't been lately, so I thought perhaps it was a time for a change... KB: I don't care which we do...but I've been out of Dip for a VERY long time, don't know what's normally done or appropriate anymore, and it seemed pretty clear that Harold was suggesting open tactical discussion (maybe that wasn't his intent), so what the hell. I think it goes against the grain in what I consider Gunboat to mean, but as I say, my understanding is over ten years old and things may mean something different now. Just for the record, I take back my press to be on the safe side. I won't be supporting Dave into Quebec. Or maybe I will. We'll see. DP: Okay, I looked at the map, and there a bunch of attacks that I can come up with that will take out some of Paul's centers (I was up to 4 and counting when I quit). However, if I was going to do that, then there was stuff to do elsewhere, etc. Then we start doing this every turn. Then we start negotiating between us. Maybe there's a new leader and we do it some more. And it starts to take a lot of time and I guess I'm rather enjoying the faster pace. So, I'll vote for keeping the press amusing, and there's nothing wrong with saying "stop the leader" put I'll pass on the tactics. Doesn't mean that we can't make guesses and try to support each other of course (<:. DP: Konrad, Just crossed mails with you. In normal broadcast dip discussing tactics is certainly fine. This is far from a normal game though (<: . DP: As I said before, a negotiating game is a whole different animal. Takes a lot more time and effort. Things will slow down a lot. I know my turn around time would go way down. As this was originally an exercise to give you a chance to try your GMing, I think we can keep it going as it has been. You've got enough experience now I would think to make an offerring in TAP for a full blown game and then you can get all the players going in a open negotiating game. Meanwhile, we'll let Paul satisfy his blood lust here, so he'll be meek and sated when we meet him in a real game.... Jim Burgess (JB): I agree with what Dave said, I'm assuming we still DO have an offering in TAP with Harold GMing a regular game. I'm still on the list to be in that. HR: Doing Harem Scarem hasn't scared me away from this! Running the TAP game should be a cakewalk compared to this! 8-) Speaking of which, are the Work Fairies allowing you to work on TAP some more? JB: Thanks, not really..... I'm totally buried for the rest of the week. I plan to work on TAP over the weekend and hope to get it out at the beginning of next week. That should be doable. I knew about six months ago that October was lining up to be a real personal/work monster and it was worse than I imagined. I'm really glad that I went to the "DavidCon" FTF Dip gaming in Boston a few weeks ago, but that was my Dipping for the month. TAP output for the month died then. You guys seem to be having a fun time, but I ***WILL*** note that me GMing by hand had me making fewer mistakes than you have. ;-) ;-) ;-) Jim-Bob PS Mark Nelson says that he would be interested in helping with a new Diplomacy AtoZ, but he says all his files are back in England (he is in Australia).